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  #1  
Old 04-21-2016, 09:59 AM
Thumper Thumper is offline
Rick
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Plymouth, MN
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Suckers!!!

I hope the title got your attention.

I've read recently about guys using fluid extractors to change their oil. I used one on my inboard boat engine many years ago. My experience was only so-so, but I used a fairly cheap one.

Does anyone use these? What is your experience like?

Here's an example one recommended by KevinX...
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002SR7TC/...eeb19f10dc96_S
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  #2  
Old 04-21-2016, 10:50 AM
Schamby Schamby is offline
Paul
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumper View Post
I hope the title got your attention.

I've read recently about guys using fluid extractors to change their oil. I used one on my inboard boat engine many years ago. My experience was only so-so, but I used a fairly cheap one.

Does anyone use these? What is your experience like?

Here's an example one recommended by KevinX...
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002SR7TC/...eeb19f10dc96_S
I seen it also and was wondering how well it worked. I think you suck out the oil from the drip stick hole. If on the side stand allot of the oil would be on the wrong side. To me the reason the drain plug is on the clutch side is when draining the oil you can do it on the side stand and the oil would run to that side.
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  #3  
Old 04-21-2016, 11:49 AM
stillsteamn stillsteamn is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Bloomington, MN
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I figure the fluid extractor method leaves any sediment sitting on the bottom of the pan, so it should only be a last resort method.

This year I've started seeing lawn mowers advertised as "just check and add" for the engine oil, as if we all are now too lazy to ever change the oil. Since they don't also advertise "new engine technology that prevents all engine wear", I guess this method of maintenance appeals to those that like to scrap out and replace their lawn mower every 6 years or so.
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  #4  
Old 04-21-2016, 12:30 PM
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Rick
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Plymouth, MN
Posts: 4,540
I looked at the bottom of 2 Vics: 1.) My 2004 Freedom 92", and 2.) my 2014 Freedom 106". The bottom of the engine cases are different.

1.) The 2004 has low-spot on the case for a sump where the oil plug is located. I don't see the oil siphon being able to do any better job at extracting the oil than gravity would do. So, I think the drain via the oil plug is the best method.

2.) On the 2014, there isn't any defined sump on the bottom of the engine case. The oil plug is about midway of the front-to-back length of the case. It's also about an inch-or-more from the left (kickstand) side of the case. This indicates, and I can visually see, that the drain plug is NOT the lowest point on the case. I could see there being several ounces of oil left after draining. And we all know that its the last couple ounces that hold all the heavy crud. I have never seen the innerds of the case, so, *maybe* there is a molded channel that would carry the oil to the drain plug, but that's not evident from the outside.

KevinX wrote on FB that the drain plug is not the lowest point on the engine. While I now believe that for the 106", I don't believe that for my 2004. His method is to extract the oil, pump up the extractor again moving the host to the front of the case, and then move it to the back of the case.

My previous experience, I was just lucky to even get the hose (it was like cheap aquarium tube) to even get to the bottom of the case. The hose wanted to stay coiled up. As I wrote in my initial post... it was a cheap extractor. I would hope that for $100, the siphon hoses that came with better units would be straighter and with better feel than the aquarium tubing.
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  #5  
Old 04-21-2016, 06:38 PM
Joe Gopher Joe Gopher is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Burnsville, MN
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I have thought of getting one of these off and on, and increased interest given some of the challenges with Indian drain plugs stripping(there are 2 and the case is a little thin).

In the end, there are some great point made here and I think the biggest challenge is just ensuring you get all of the oil out of the system. Not saying that a standard drain gets all the oil out, but it seems like that is the general consensus.
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  #6  
Old 04-21-2016, 10:57 PM
Johnny Ritz Johnny Ritz is offline
John
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Mendota Heights, MN
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When I change the oil:
-I warm the bike up a little bit and then shut off engine.
-Spray brake cleaner on drain plug area and wipe with rag.
-Spray brake cleaner on drain plug area again and blow area with compressed air.
-Do the same 2 steps above to oil filter area.
-Remove oil dip stick filler and clean dip stick with a clean rag.
-Clean oil filler (dipstick) area with a clean rag.
-I drain all the old oil (bike on kickstand) via oil drain plug.
-Remove oil filter (and drain it)
-*I then pour a some new oil into the filler and until it starts draining - some say this is a waste of oil....but I want to try to get all the dirty stuff out.
-Clean the oil filter area with a clean rag.
-Install new oil filter after putting a light coat of new oil on filter ring.
-Clean oil drain plug area with a clean rag.
-Install oil plug with a new copper gasket. Using a torque wrench I torque the plug to spec. The drain plugs strip easily - so make sure you torque to spec!
-Fill oil to spec.
-Clean oil fill area with clean rag.
-Clean dipstick very well.
-Replace dipstick.
-Check oil.
-Start bike and check for leaks.
-Clean all areas again.
-Happy bike
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  #7  
Old 04-22-2016, 06:06 AM
Thumper Thumper is offline
Rick
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Plymouth, MN
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Luckily, I haven't stripped a drain plug yet. I hope to continue that streak!!

I understand that installing a bolt/screw while upside down and at a reverse angle in an area you can't directly see presents a challenge. I always try and do it with my fingers instead of a wrench. On my 2 bikes, I can snug the screw up with my fingers pretty easily. On Laurie's bike, there are a couple threads that require a little more strength.

Never force that drain plug!!!

If you are having problems, consider chasing the threads with a 12mmx1.5 pitch tap to clean up the threads.

If anyone gets the oil sucker, I would like to try it.
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  #8  
Old 04-22-2016, 07:38 AM
Joe Gopher Joe Gopher is offline
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Location: Burnsville, MN
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Another pure safety measure I have employed is to replace the drain plugs every other oil change. Not so much for the threads (although it doesn't hurt) but to eliminate the "mushroom" effect on the allen head side of the plug.

They are about $5 a piece and I buy em by the dozen as well as buying crush washers by the dozen.

Also, I highly recommend using a Torque wrench (20lbs) to finish after finger tight. Seems like overkill, but can prevent stripping out the threads, etc.
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  #9  
Old 04-22-2016, 07:39 AM
Schamby Schamby is offline
Paul
 
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Something I read a few years ago on a Victory engine you will at best get out 90% of all the oil. After seeing a engine opened up I can see why. Allot of nocks and crannies for oil to sit. The heads have valleys for oil to sit and ledges in the engine itself have oil their. Getting out as much as you can is a good idea but you will not get it all out.

If you look up oil compacity on a 106 engine it is 5qts. The oil change kits are 4.5qts that means about a half quarter still in the engine.

Adding clean oil just to let it run out I do not think it would help.
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Last edited by Schamby; 04-22-2016 at 07:47 AM.
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  #10  
Old 04-22-2016, 07:55 AM
Schamby Schamby is offline
Paul
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Lakeville, MN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeGopher View Post
Another pure safety measure I have employed is to replace the drain plugs every other oil change. Not so much for the threads (although it doesn't hurt) but to eliminate the "mushroom" effect on the allen head side of the plug.

They are about $5 a piece and I buy em by the dozen as well as buying crush washers by the dozen.

Also, I highly recommend using a Torque wrench (20lbs) to finish after finger tight. Seems like overkill, but can prevent stripping out the threads, etc.
We all love oil theards!!! I have never used a torque on a oil plug. But I use a 1/4 drive to tighten the plug. Bruce will understand that. Yes I should start using one.
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  #11  
Old 04-22-2016, 09:45 AM
Thumper Thumper is offline
Rick
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Plymouth, MN
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I am still using the same drain plug in the Vegas that came with the bike in 2004. At 2,500 miles between oil changes, plus the first oil change, that's 42 oil changes. Still don't leak a drop.

A few years ago, I started re-using the same crush washer, too. The outer edges are "seasoned" with road grime that I wipe off. So far, so good.
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  #12  
Old 04-22-2016, 09:49 AM
Thumper Thumper is offline
Rick
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Plymouth, MN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schamby View Post
Something I read a few years ago on a Victory engine you will at best get out 90% of all the oil. After seeing a engine opened up I can see why.
Paul - did you see the innerds of the 106" case? If so, is there any channels on the floor of the case to move oil to the drain plug?
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  #13  
Old 04-22-2016, 11:02 AM
Schamby Schamby is offline
Paul
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumper View Post
Paul - did you see the innerds of the 106" case? If so, is there any channels on the floor of the case to move oil to the drain plug?
No I seen a 92 and a 100.
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  #14  
Old 04-22-2016, 12:34 PM
Joe Gopher Joe Gopher is offline
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I've seen the bottom of a 100 case (same as the 106) and there aren't any channels or any elements that would lead me to believe that it is moving oil to the plug.

Since the plug is on the kickstand side, I suppose in theory draining the oil while it's on the stand could remove more oil. We are probably talking tablespoons here, but still.

Have always used a lift or wheel chock, so it's a moot point for me.
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  #15  
Old 04-22-2016, 12:36 PM
Joe Gopher Joe Gopher is offline
Joe
 
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Location: Burnsville, MN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumper View Post
I am still using the same drain plug in the Vegas that came with the bike in 2004. At 2,500 miles between oil changes, plus the first oil change, that's 42 oil changes. Still don't leak a drop.

A few years ago, I started re-using the same crush washer, too. The outer edges are "seasoned" with road grime that I wipe off. So far, so good.
Yeah, I hear you. I was in the same boat for a while, but when others have done oil changes on the bikes (sometimes out of necessity on a trip) you can't always control how it's done.

I look it as cheap insurance to ensure I don't have any problems.
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