Twin Cities Victory Riders  

Go Back   Twin Cities Victory Riders > TCVR Main Forums > Tech Tips & Questions

Tech Tips & Questions What works and don't work with the mechanical workings of your cycles.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-21-2016, 05:54 PM
craz1 craz1 is offline
Wayne
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: MINNEAPOLIS MINNESOTA
Posts: 179
Who has seen this problem

Well I pulled the engine to take a look at what the problem was on Carolyns 2011 Pin. Bike broke down with a bang and smoke pouring out the back in Missoula MT on our move out here. This is what I found. Got a blown head gasket. Looks like the cylinder surface has been eroded or it was a faulty surface from the start. Not sure if you can take a skim cut to clean it up. I had 198psi in the front and 120psi in rear so I knew something was up. One question I have for you guys who replace cams, I assume you just retorque everything back in place without changing gaskets is that correct? We planned on selling the bike right before this so bummer.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2875.jpg
Views:	115
Size:	70.4 KB
ID:	5992  Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2873.jpg
Views:	87
Size:	58.3 KB
ID:	5993  
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-21-2016, 09:55 PM
Johnny Ritz Johnny Ritz is offline
John
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Mendota Heights, MN
Posts: 4,142
When Blue Angel got her motor work done the base, head and valve were all replaced. To accommodate the extra snort, I needed a stronger clutch spring (and as long as we were in there we replaced the clutch plates).
Again, a new gasket was used on the primary.

My motor guy won't re-use gaskets. And neither would I want him to. If I am spending the money to do the work, I want it done done right. Why skimp - pulling the motor costs lots of money just to get it out and back in the cast bikes.

But, not all cam jobs need the head pulled. Drops in cams just need the valve cover removed - the head and cylinder stay torqued. (to my best knowledge)
__________________
"Get Busy Livin', or Get Busy Dying'"

Johnny Ritz & #434
VMC #59

John Ritter, the one still living.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-21-2016, 11:12 PM
craz1 craz1 is offline
Wayne
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: MINNEAPOLIS MINNESOTA
Posts: 179
[quote=Johnny Ritz;
But, not all cam jobs need the head pulled. Drops in cams just need the valve cover removed - the head and cylinder stay torqued. (to my best knowledge)[/QUOTE]

Thats what's got me puzzled. I can't see how you can put a cam in without unbolting the head and cylinder. They all share the same 4 studs. The cam and rocker assembly can only be extracted when you remove the four nuts which hold everything together. Maybe someone can enlighten me.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-22-2016, 11:22 AM
Joe Gopher Joe Gopher is offline
Joe
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Burnsville, MN
Posts: 4,256
There are head bolts in the cam carrier that need to be removed to change the cams. To the best of my knowledge, when Rylan does this he does not replace the head gasket (the heads don't come off) and re-uses the valve cover gaskets unless there is damage.

The head bolts get re-torqued to spec and the bike goes down the road.

The only time I have had the head gaskets replaced was when there was cylinder work being done.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-22-2016, 01:01 PM
craz1 craz1 is offline
Wayne
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: MINNEAPOLIS MINNESOTA
Posts: 179
Thats what i thought. Kinda amazed they reseal. Of course the Vic manual states you need to replace the base gasket also if you remove the head. I pulled off the cylinders to check for any damage there because ther was some metal missing from the gasket and because of that surface. I have an email to Rylan about the cylinder. As you can see there is some damage to the cylinder to gasket face seal. Someone on the Vic forms said that the rear head gasket leak is a known problem on some years. Never heard that. Kinda interesting digging into this motor. A lot different that the old Z1900 I am used to working on.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-22-2016, 03:46 PM
stillsteamn stillsteamn is offline
Dean
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Bloomington, MN
Posts: 599
As I read this post I was listening to "Go West" by Pet Shop Boys. A great song, and apparently that's what Carolyn was thinking as she wrung old blue's neck through Montana until she blew a head gasket! Or if Wayne was on it at the time, I think we can chalk it up to Carolyn's earlier heavy hand.

Pet Shop Boys, Go West:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NZ04BG7TfA
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-22-2016, 04:47 PM
craz1 craz1 is offline
Wayne
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: MINNEAPOLIS MINNESOTA
Posts: 179
[quote=stillsteamn; Or if Wayne was on it at the time, I think we can chalk it up to Carolyn's earlier heavy hand.[/QUOTE]

Well it was her 8-ball that blew the gasket. Unfortunately neither one of us were riding it. I had a friend that wanted to ride it back to Idaho as we were driving the van with three cats. We were several hours away when we got the call from him saying that the goods new is he made it to Missoula but the bad news (with a laugh) is he broke the motorcycle. Ended picking him and the bike up the next morning.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-23-2016, 08:00 AM
Joe Gopher Joe Gopher is offline
Joe
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Burnsville, MN
Posts: 4,256
Quote:
Originally Posted by craz1 View Post
Thats what i thought. Kinda amazed they reseal. Of course the Vic manual states you need to replace the base gasket also if you remove the head. I pulled off the cylinders to check for any damage there because ther was some metal missing from the gasket and because of that surface. I have an email to Rylan about the cylinder. As you can see there is some damage to the cylinder to gasket face seal. Someone on the Vic forms said that the rear head gasket leak is a known problem on some years. Never heard that. Kinda interesting digging into this motor. A lot different that the old Z1900 I am used to working on.
If I remember correctly from the last time I saw it done, removing the carrier bolts doesn't take all of the head bolts out. Maybe that's why they can re-seat?

I would replace them if the heads have been removed. Too many x-factors to re-use a gasket that is so important.

I hope you get the problem straightened out! And for what it's worth, I have never heard of "known problems' with the rear head gaskets but I suppose it could be possible.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-23-2016, 08:24 AM
craz1 craz1 is offline
Wayne
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: MINNEAPOLIS MINNESOTA
Posts: 179
You are correct Joe there are two outside bolts(on the cam chain side) which do not get removed.I would think they would have to be loosened at bit though Just got an e-mail from Rylan. He stated the cylinder has to be replaced. If you try to take a cut on the surface the Nikisil can chip on the cylinder wall.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-23-2016, 09:50 AM
Joe Gopher Joe Gopher is offline
Joe
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Burnsville, MN
Posts: 4,256
Quote:
Originally Posted by craz1 View Post
You are correct Joe there are two outside bolts(on the cam chain side) which do not get removed.I would think they would have to be loosened at bit though Just got an e-mail from Rylan. He stated the cylinder has to be replaced. If you try to take a cut on the surface the Nikisil can chip on the cylinder wall.
Or you could have the cylinders bored out and sleeved and make it a 116"!

Sucks that it has to come to that. Having replaced a cylinder recently, it's not fun or cheap...
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12-23-2016, 01:30 PM
craz1 craz1 is offline
Wayne
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: MINNEAPOLIS MINNESOTA
Posts: 179
I found a used Vision rear cylinder about 2 hours from me with under 7,000 miles I think I will pick it up. I will get the piston with it. From what I understand about Nikasil you do not hone them just put new rings and go if the bores are ok. A new cylinder is $580 so for $80 think I will give it a try. Trying to do this cheap but correct and then sell it. I am running this by Rylan to see if he agrees. Joe what did you have to replace a cylinder on. Did you do both. So now you have cast iron sleeves, like the old bikes have. I resleeved one of my Z1900's ran about 500 with boring and honing

Last edited by craz1; 12-23-2016 at 01:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-23-2016, 01:48 PM
craz1 craz1 is offline
Wayne
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: MINNEAPOLIS MINNESOTA
Posts: 179
I stopped in to the local Vic/Indian dealer to get there opinion and they thought that it could be resurfaced but I had my doubts which Rylan confirmed. I had one of the Guys in service ask if it had a oil cooler, i gave him a puzzled look and said they all have oil coolers. His reply was not all of them Please tell me I am right.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-23-2016, 02:23 PM
Joe Gopher Joe Gopher is offline
Joe
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Burnsville, MN
Posts: 4,256
Quote:
Originally Posted by craz1 View Post
I stopped in to the local Vic/Indian dealer to get there opinion and they thought that it could be resurfaced but I had my doubts which Rylan confirmed. I had one of the Guys in service ask if it had a oil cooler, i gave him a puzzled look and said they all have oil coolers. His reply was not all of them Please tell me I am right.
I can't think of a single Victory bike that doesn't have an oil cooler. Don't know enough about the Octane, but given it's liquid cooled, I imagine there is no need for an additional cooler for just the oil.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-23-2016, 02:25 PM
Joe Gopher Joe Gopher is offline
Joe
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Burnsville, MN
Posts: 4,256
Quote:
Originally Posted by craz1 View Post
I found a used Vision rear cylinder about 2 hours from me with under 7,000 miles I think I will pick it up. I will get the piston with it. From what I understand about Nikasil you do not hone them just put new rings and go if the bores are ok. A new cylinder is $580 so for $80 think I will give it a try. Trying to do this cheap but correct and then sell it. I am running this by Rylan to see if he agrees. Joe what did you have to replace a cylinder on. Did you do both. So now you have cast iron sleeves, like the old bikes have. I resleeved one of my Z1900's ran about 500 with boring and honing
It's always worth a try to see if the cylinder is good!..

My XC ran in to a little oil-leak issue on the rear cylinder where the cam chain runs through it. I ended up replacing both.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-23-2016, 04:16 PM
craz1 craz1 is offline
Wayne
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: MINNEAPOLIS MINNESOTA
Posts: 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeGopher View Post
It's always worth a try to see if the cylinder is good!..

My XC ran in to a little oil-leak issue on the rear cylinder where the cam chain runs through it. I ended up replacing both.
Was that after you had engine work done on it or before. Did you put sleeves in because of the oil leak? Kinda interested why you just didn't replace the gaskets. This guy stated that some of the KingPins did not have oil coolers. I just kept my mouth shut.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Site Content Copyright © 2000 - 2010
Twin Cities Victory Riders
All Rights Reserved