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  #16  
Old 05-31-2016, 12:57 PM
Crimsonaro Crimsonaro is offline
Tony
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Hastings, Minnesota
Posts: 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by SirPoonga View Post

What doesn't make sense to me is why my stock horn didn't go off but the air horn did.
IF(!!) Big if. My possible theory of what happened is true. Then the horn "may" have been trying to sound, but the relay was using up the voltage potential. And the frame voltage potential was probably significantly less then 12vdc. 12vdc is worst case scenario. IE Frame ground completely disconnected. A high resistance ground would be passing some current making the frame potential less than 12vdc.

Just for example: The Horn may need at least 9vdc to make some kind of sound, but the relay may only need 5vdc to close the contacts. Just like your starter really wants 12vdc to have enough amps to turn the big motor over.

So if the only change was battery terminals/bolts/washers.... Perhaps the negative terminal to frame ground ring terminal was what had the higher resistance allowing some current to find a path of lesser resistance.
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  #17  
Old 05-31-2016, 03:14 PM
SirPoonga SirPoonga is offline
Kevin
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Oakdale MN
Posts: 1,383
Ok, so what do I need to do to figure that out? Could it be a frame ground location is loose then? What I am going to have to do/check when I put the air horn back on? I think you might be on to something since everything else seems like I did it properly. I tried not to take any shortcuts.
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  #18  
Old 05-31-2016, 03:36 PM
Crimsonaro Crimsonaro is offline
Tony
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Hastings, Minnesota
Posts: 424
Frame ground is worth checking for sure. Multiple ring terminals on the battery terminals all add resistance. Make sure they are all clean flat and tight. Do I recall this happened not too long after a rainy ride?

I assume air horns may take some juice, so the diode to make sure the relay only gets power from the horn switch would eliminate my theory of the relay energizing from a bad ground and blowing the air horn.

And cross your fingers I'm not blowing smoke up yer'arse.

And on your cam topic.

I gotta get the GoPro mounted to record the idiots too. Planned to that last Summer and never did.
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  #19  
Old 05-31-2016, 03:47 PM
SirPoonga SirPoonga is offline
Kevin
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Oakdale MN
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This all happened on a normal day. I ran with the air horn for two weeks without any issues. Then one day a couple block from work when I stopped at a stop light the bike died. When I went to start it the issue occurred. I assume it took that long for something to maybe get loose or change position.

Right now, without the air horn, everything seems to be working fine. When I do hook up the air horn again I am going to try to put everything within reach of the headlight hole so if this happens again I can quickly unhook everything. I am somewhat tempted to get one of those smart power distribution units that can have triggers for each circuit. That way everything can be disabled from an app.
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  #20  
Old 05-31-2016, 05:01 PM
Crimsonaro Crimsonaro is offline
Tony
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Hastings, Minnesota
Posts: 424
I'm sure I'm thinking of someone else with a star washer and problem a day or two after riding in the rain.

That sounds like a cool toy. Smart phone app to disable shtuff.

Looking at your schematic and question just got me thinking. It's just like a floating ground on a machines power supply. The power supply's common not grounded but the device it's powering is bolted to the machine's grounded frame. It makes the power the device is seeing be +/- a few volts. Things don't work good. Lol. Anyway, basically the same principle. The battery is floating due to it's common/negative terminal not grounded well enough.

I've considered improving the 99's frame ground with a ground bar of sorts, but really when clean and tight it doesn't need it. Just may not need fixed as often.

You can carry a volt meter. If it happens again and it is a ground issue, you will see some small voltage between the negative battery terminal and the frame. (When ya hit the starter)

Good luck.

How much the air horn set ya back?
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  #21  
Old 05-31-2016, 11:03 PM
06shooter 06shooter is offline
Lee (MN)
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Shakopee, MN
Posts: 703
dash cams

Aerostitch has a dash cam for motorcycles in their catalogue.
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  #22  
Old 05-31-2016, 11:06 PM
DaGrey1 DaGrey1 is offline
Richard (MN)
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Osseo, MN
Posts: 279
"Put a diode somewhere on the relay circuit so that it will never be able to flow current backwards. It won't fix your ground problem, but it will kill the confusion of why the air horn goes off when you have a bad ground."

The Diode across the horn rely will also help reduce feedback glitches when you turn off the key. Some have flickering dash lights as the power is turned off.
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  #23  
Old 06-01-2016, 09:25 AM
SirPoonga SirPoonga is offline
Kevin
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Oakdale MN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 06shooter View Post
Aerostitch has a dash cam for motorcycles in their catalogue.
Interesting. They have a CCTV camera, so low resolution. However, they do carry the Innov K1 system which is is what I would get if I didn't decide on the Sena. Maybe I would get the K1 with next year's tax return. I still like the idea of a system that is wired to the bike so it starts and stops with the bike.
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  #24  
Old 11-09-2016, 02:24 PM
SirPoonga SirPoonga is offline
Kevin
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Oakdale MN
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OK, coming back to this as it is time to start thinking about winter projects.

I think I will get the new Screaming Banchee air horn since it has the relay built in. I am looking through this to see if I remember the conclusion we came up with. I did have everything wired correctly, technically speaking. There are two things. I did not have a flyback diode though that probably wouldn't cause this problem because that fixes an issue if you turn off the key. I would assume the Screaming Banchee built in relay circuit would deal with that. Actually, I think it is solid state looking at the pics instead of magnetic.

The other problem we figured was related to how I hooked up the stock horn side of the relay. Normally people replace the the stock horn with the relay. I wanted to keep all the wiring in the fairing and not run wires down the frame to the horn. So, instead, I found the wire for the positive side of the stock horn and tapped into that which means the stock horn and air horn would be wired in parallel, thus both would go off. However, I did not wire to the ground wire the horn uses, I wired to my wire that goes directly to the battery. So the thinking was the frame causes resistance, so my direct path to the battery might have caused something to take the path of least resistance and cause electricity to flow backwards down a wire.

So, I will still wire the horns in parallel, but this time the ground wire from the relay will go to the ground wire of the stock horn. I am also going to wire all of the connections directly behind the headlight. That way if something goes wrong I don't have to take the whole fairing off to get at the wires. I will set it up where I can disconnect the air horn wires easily. And then if that still fails I will remove the stock horn so the relay replaces the horn.
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  #25  
Old 11-10-2016, 09:37 AM
johnny vision johnny vision is offline
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Location: Rosemount, MN
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNK-PHl9uj0
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